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Seas Will Rise Faster Than Predicted, Say Scientists
Times of London
Sea levels will rise much faster than previously forecast because of the rate that glaciers and ice sheets are melting, a study has found.
Research commissioned by the U.S. Climate Change Science Program concludes that the rises will substantially exceed forecasts that do not take into account the latest data and observations.
The adjusted outlook, announced at a meeting of the American Geophysical Union in San Francisco, suggests that recent predictions of a rise of between 7 inches and 2 feet over the next century are conservative.
The study predicts that sea-level rises will be far higher than the levels that were set out last year by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.
The research looked at prehistoric periods when the climate changed dramatically over the course of decades, and evaluated the mechanisms behind such rapid transformation.
Rising sea levels were one of the major elements involved in past episodes, along with faster glacial melting, droughts and changes to the Atlantic Ocean’s heat-driven circulation.
• Click here to read the rest of this story in the Times of London.
December 17th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
what a pathetic excuse for a reporter spreading this non accurate crap around.
you know of course its only a matter of time that people who do wrong to others won’t have to face a court, but those they wronged directly and I can tell you, that will be justice!
December 17th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
“When the Arctic Ocean ice melts, it never raises sea level because floating ice is floating ice, because it’s displacing water. “When the ice melts, sea level actually goes down.
It’s called the Archimedes Principle.”
December 17th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
What is the mechanism behind sea levels rising? When the ice melts in my cup I don’t get an increase in water level (I measured it). Since glaciers are like giant ice cubes, wouldn’t their melting not affect the ocean levels?
Just curious, really
December 17th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
Here’s a sixth grade Science experiment for you doom and gloomers..1 glass of water 1/2-3/4 full..add ice cubes.. mark water level..when ice is melted..note water level not changing…icebergs displace water and do not add to the raising of sea levels when melted….
December 17th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
I don’t have a lot of education and for sure am not a scientist. I do know however that ice takes up more space than water. So when ice melts, well try it.
December 17th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
Was human activity to blame for the “prehistoric periods when the climate changed dramatically over the course of decades?”
December 17th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
According to 4th grade science, when ice floats, it displaces water, but when ice melts, the water level goes down. Everyone can perform this experiment at home in their kitchen. If that is a true proposition, then why does melting artic ice cause the sea level to rise? Or does it?
December 17th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
I’M 72 YEARS OLD…AND REALLY SCARED !!!
December 17th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
How can you explain backing up your information with theory when using actual proof you can say that the ocean level will NOT rise at all.
James O’Brien, an emeritus professor at Florida State University who studies climate variability and the oceans said recently “When the Arctic Ocean ice melts, it never raises sea level because floating ice is floating ice, because it’s displacing water,” O’Brien said. “When the ice melts, sea level actually goes down.
“I call it a fourth grade science experiment. Take a glass, put some ice in it. Put water in it. Mark level where water is. Let it met. After the ice melts, the sea level didn’t go up in your glass of water. It’s called the Archimedes Principle.”
December 18th, 2008 at 1:39 am
Complete and total rubbish.
See:
http://atangledweb.squarespace.com/httpatangledwebsquarespace/ipcc-sea-level-rise-claim-is-a-fraud.html
December 18th, 2008 at 10:51 am
So what about the hundreds of other scientists in norhtern europe who are talking glaciers reforming in other places?
December 18th, 2008 at 10:53 am
So what about the hundreds of other scientists in northern Europe who are talking about glaciers reforming in other places?
December 18th, 2008 at 11:08 am
Seas are not rising at all last few years. What about that? More lies.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
heLLOOooo… a lot of the ice is on LAND. duh. When the ice that is over land melts, where do you suppose it goes.
December 18th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Why will sea levels rise if the glaciers melt?
Because they are ABOVE the water, you dummies!
Personally, I feel the world is doomed, not because of environmental problems, but because of really stupid people. People asking questions such as: Why would sea levels rise? We are speaking of Glaciers, not icebergs!
December 18th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
What a crock! Seas will rise and the IQ of those predicting it will drop. Perhaps this is the only job these jokers can get given their inability to understand science. What a waste.
December 18th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
1. Not all ice is floating. Lot of it is stuck on the rocks, and ice sometimes is even 3 km thick. When this ice melts it is flowing to the ocean, and this is rising sea level.
2. Gravity is stronger at equator. When it is ice, it is stuck at the poles, but when it melts it will flow to the equator and rise water level around equator, while previously as ice it was stuck on poles.
3. There is lot of ice on the land and mountains. With global worming it will melt and go into the sea. Eart is not a cup of water.
4. This explanation is similar to one when people were giving explanation that Earth is flat. Having a silly proof is comforting, by for such characters there is always reckoning point at which “REALITY BITES”
So long …
December 18th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Go get yourselves informed and avoid relying upon news media. It is grossly inadequate in the grand scheme of things.
December 18th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Relax, it’s just green-scare again. It’s the same ol’ same ol’. They don’t realize that the public has moved on, and the same old scare tactics don’t work anymore. They gotta come up with something new.
Here’s something that will scare the greenies: Europe has had Cap&Trade for several years now, but it has not created any green jobs. Instead, once people pay their green taxes, they don’t feel guilty anymore and consumerism skyrockets, which actually creates more manufacturing jobs! Ha! That’s why Obama wants to bring in Cap&Trade, because it creates jobs but the grrenies will be left out of the payday. I love it! USA! USA!
December 18th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Ok let’s get real for a moment. Let’s remember who started all this rubbish – Al Gore. And guess what he is – a liberal democrat! And guess what liberals and all the greedy, power-hungry guys in government try to do to the people of our country – scare them enough to make changes that will get them to inevitably give the government more….. you guessed it, MONEY!!! This is all just ANOTHER Money-Making Scheme! Analog TV’s anyone??
December 18th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
An ice cube floating in a glass of water will not raise the level in the glass as it melts. Was Archimedes a 4th grade science teacher? Perhaps he should have failed the grade. What do you think will happen when the mile thick (or whatever) sheet of ice covering Greenland melts? It’s not sea ice. It’s built up on land and will flow into the sea. Try cutting a hole in a board and suspending a glass of water underneath with a funnel attached to the hole. Now cover the board with ice and let it melt. Assuming all the water flows into the glass, will the level rise? Maybe you should try it with a bucket instead. I’m not a scientist, but I did pass the 4th grade.
December 18th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Floating is is not the issue, it is the large blocks on ice on the surfaces of areas like Greenland or the Antarctic. This ice is not floating and WILL raise the sea levels significantly if this melts. Forget the 4th grade experiments.
December 18th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
You’d never guess from this collection of comments that this was Foxnews!
Whether it is accelerated by human activity or not isn’t even the question. A meteor isn’t man made, but if one is large enough it will kill every one of us. It makes thinking of ways around such an event something of a priority.
Not that your amateur experiments with kitchen ice cubes aren’t convincing, but I’ll defer to organizations like NASA on this one:
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/gornitz_09/
December 18th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
To clarify: The Arctic icecap is floating in the Arctic ocean. If it melts, there would be no significant change in ocean levels. On the other hand Greenland and Antarctica have ice sheets sitting on top of land. If these melt, these waters are added to the oceans resulting in rising ocean levels. The same is true of glaciers.
December 18th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
That may be true, but consider all the ice in Antarctica which is a continent. When it melts it will end up in the sea.
Further water is the densest at 4 degrees Celsius. When the average temperature of the water increases, its volume will increase.
December 18th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
You folks are correct about the glass of water experiment. It’s called Alcamedes’ Principal. Water level decreases because ice has air in it. So, if the ice caps melt, guess what? We have MORE FRESH OXYGEN. Btw, the ice caps have INCREASED in size, no decreased.
Ocean level have gone DOWN an inch in the last 20 years, not up. Global tempuratures have also gone down, by 1/3 degree f.
December 18th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Does the ice in your experiments sit atop the water as does the polar ice sheets and glaciers – I think not… Let’s repeat your experiment in a more realistic setting. put a half inch of water in a tin-foil pan and put enough ice just on one side so that it reaches the top of the pan….
I think you will find as the ice on the one side melts – the water level on the opposite side rises…
This is the reality of Global Warming and a much more apples vs apples test as opposed to your apples vs oranges testing….
December 18th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
In response to Jeff, Walter and Paul…
Many of the world’s glacier packs and ice sheets, particularly in the Southern Hemisphere, are currently on land, not floating on the water. When they melt, the water will seek the lowest point (generally the ocean). James O’ Brian missed the point, as he only focused on the ice at the North Pole.
December 18th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
Glaciers are not floating ice. The melting of floating ice will not affect sea level, but the melting of glaciers will. The important thing to understand is that most of today’s alpine glaciers formed during the Little Ice Age. The glaciers in Glacier National Park, for example, are mostly 500 to 800 years old. Look it up. Nothing is wrong with our climate, it is just going through natural cycles related to the Sun’s electromagnetic field output.
December 18th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Water melting off the sea may not rise the sea level, what is worrisome then, is ice on land melting (like in Greenland). Science has been able to show that sea levels in the past went up and down, allowing the Bering strait to be crossed by animals and humans alike.
December 18th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
When the Ice that is melting is on land and melts it goes into the sea, thus rising.
December 18th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
The only thing that will rise the ocean level is if we dumped all the political bullcrap in it, then it will rise to record highs
December 18th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
What a load of crock this is just the media teaming up to “scare you”
December 18th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
Wow, I’m surprised to see so many commenters who disbelieve or refute the reality unfolding before us. For those of you just asking about the “4th grade ice melting experiment,” there are two factors you didn’t take into account. One is that much of the ice is ON TOP of land. It melts INTO the ocean. Secondly, the glaciers are composed of FRESH water, not salt water. Due to the density difference, the floating fresh water glaciers’ melting into the ocean will raise the ocean levels. The following site provides further clarification on this:
http://www.physorg.com/news5619.html
Still not convinced? Then I suggest you retry your experiment with fresh water ice melting into salt water.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
Floating ice, melts = no sea level change. 4th grade science.
Ice *on LAND* (e.g., glaciers, icecaps) melts = the COAST is TOAST.
If *all* the ice ON LAND melted, sea level rises >300 feet.
Wake up, sleepyheads. Time to sell your waterfront property, before the bottom drops out of the market. Really.
Actually, don’t sell. Then the rest of us *will laugh at you.*
December 18th, 2008 at 11:50 pm
Let’s build coal-fired power plants all along the upwind edge of Greenland. Massive powerlines to get the electricity to whomever pays the most. That’ll sprinkle coal dust all over Greenland. Cover it completely, get all that ice real warm. You don’t care? Fine. You *keep* your beach houses. Buy more, even. We get to watch your investments sink under the waves. Ha-ha.
You. Conservatives. Keep all your waterfront properties. PLEASE.
December 19th, 2008 at 12:12 am
You people are confusing glaciers with icebergs. A glacier is a large mass of snow that has melted and reformed as ice, on land, not in the water.
An iceberg is a piece of that glacier that has broken off into the water.
So if all, or many, large glaciers did melt, it is possible to have a rise in sea level.
Try filling your glass almost full of water and putting your ice cubes on a plate that is tilted so that the melting ice cubes run into the glass and it will overflow.
December 19th, 2008 at 12:33 am
Hmm… The glaciers are melting and sea levels are rising. Why are they rising? Not because of melting glaciers. A 3rd grade science experiment could prove that. Get a glass of salt water (sea water preferable) put in a couple of ice cubes and mark the glass at water level. After the ice melts the water level should not have risen.
As for global warming, that’s a natural process of our planet as is global cooling. In fact according to almost every credible university in the world the average global temperature hasn’t risen in over 30 years.
When people read about temperatures and sea levels rising they really need to look into who is writing the article they are reading. Man made global warming is a politically motivated science. “Science” being loosely used.
Although a “green” economy is in the long run a good idea, it is far too expensive to try and achieve under normal circumstances. In the end if you follow the money… well… try it sometime.
December 19th, 2008 at 1:07 am
The reasoning is not that the floating ice will cause the sea to rise but that glaciers on land will melt and run off into the ocean.
That said, based on reading both sides of the debate, I think that if the climate is getting warmer that there will be more moisture in the air and that will cause more precipitation that will fall as snow in a feedback mechanism balancing the trend of melting glaciers.
Also, I have no doubt that somewhere between 45 parts of CO2 per million (earth) and 970,000 parts per million (venus) that a greenhouse will be created. I don’t believe that we’re anywhere near that threshold and that human activity is not causing climate change. Read up on your own and draw your own conclusions. Don’t buy the line about no debate.
December 19th, 2008 at 1:12 am
Wow, if I read one more statement by a person bringing up the fact that ice floats i’m gonna lose it. Haven’t any of you genius’ given any thought at all to the idea that there is huge amounts of ice and snow (miles deep in some places) that is sitting on Greenland and Antartica (Not to mention northern Canada and Russia. What happens when you take an ice cube from off of your solid hand and place it in your glass of water. Wow…the water rises…imagine that.
December 19th, 2008 at 1:19 am
The problem with melting ice is that most of it is NOT already sitting IN the water. Much of it is on land so when it melts it is adding water to the sea level.
December 19th, 2008 at 1:46 am
Your right, Ice does displaces water. But a glacier is a mass of ice that is on land. Thus it is not displacing Water at all. such as greenland, which is covered in a lot of ice, when the ice that is already in the oceans melts, then the water does not rise, but when water melts off of the mainland, then it does rise. And ice also reflects heat, so when the ice melts, more heat is absorbed into the water, thus increasing the rate of melting on other ice. It then becomes a large circle
December 19th, 2008 at 1:50 am
Most of the arctic ice is on land. When that ice melts, the runoff is into the lowest geographic point, which is the oceans basin. That additional water will cause a sea level to rise.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:28 am
The theory is that the melting ice will cause the land based glaciers (on Greenland, for example) to slide into the ocean. Where the theory falls flat is that these projections are all based on COMPUTER MODELS, not empirical evidence. These same models have not been correct in any of their dire predictions. The facts are that the planet has been cooling since 2002, antarctic ice is thickening and that glaciers in Norway and Alaska are growing.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:29 am
…yes, and Doubt is absolutely correct, sea levels have not risen for the last 2 years.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:34 am
It’s all about money and the great “Agenda.” We need to scare the hell out of the masses so we can get more research money. We scared you in the 1970’s. Remember? There was going to be an ice age. Don’t you remember? Of course you probably don’t because you are a typical American – half moron and half idiot. While you play your video games, watch TV, play and watch sports, we plot on how to eliminate you. Now one of our geniuses came up with a fantastic idea that we could spin the whole global warming thing by saying that global warming will cause a new ice age that way we can go either way. You know in case it gets colder before we get our “Agenda” accomplished.
By now you must really want to know about our “Agenda.” Well, it is socialism and some communism. We want to destroy the US economy first be destroying its ability to get enough energy, then the US will become weak and ripe for revolution so we can take it over. We constantly tell you no drilling for oil, no nukes, no coal and now one of our geniuses came up with a great idea to stop wind power – it kills birds and the power lines look ugly. You Americans are the most stupid people on earth because you just suck that stuff up. What will end your freedom and kill you, you embrace. Why? Because you have the brains of worms! No bacteria! Next we want to enslave the doers and makers and take what they make and give it to us lazy a$#@s. We need a little communism because of our final solution – according to Bill Ayers (one of our great leaders) we will need to exterminate the capitalists. He says about 25 million, but we also need to get rid of the Christians too so most of us say about 200 million. Were going to take all of your bodies to northern Canada and freeze them so that we can slowly use you as food mostly to pay off the Chinese and Russians, but man we are going to have some fun barbecues too!
Our great Messiah Obama will show you soon the great things to come. One world socialist government mixed with some great communism so we can exterminate the masses that aren’t Marxist or very strong socialists. Oh it is going to be so glorious. No more poverty, wars, and diseases will be eliminated. Oh yes, we will resume the drilling of oil because we need the oil for other products than just gasoline, hahahahahaha.
Death to America. Death to America.
Obama is the new GOD. The GREAT MARXIST GOD!
Marxist John
December 19th, 2008 at 2:37 am
Its all about control, of you and me and my money. Love it when these guys lie trying to justify there jobs. Trying to scare everyone simple amazing
December 19th, 2008 at 2:48 am
glaciers are on land not floating on the ocean.anyone that doesnt believe in global warming is a braindead idiot.
December 19th, 2008 at 7:56 am
very interesting. keep the controvery going and maybe kearning will take place!
December 19th, 2008 at 9:41 am
Its all a scam and the sad part is that a lot of people belive it. Whats next, a committe to stop the sun from going super nova.
December 19th, 2008 at 10:50 am
Just the science.
The theory is that the miles of ice on top of Greenland and Antarctica are not floating in the ocean. If they melt, then it will directly add to the sea level. Ice in the Artic, if it melts will only minutely lower the ocean level.
December 19th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
most of the talk has been about arctice ice, and when that melts, sea level will decrease. in the Antarctic, we are getting more ice and snow, but if that melts, most of it on land, then presumably the sea levels would rise, but the problem is that what melts is that which is already at sea, as the glaciers press outward. people were worried when 15B broke off the Ross Ice Shelf, but it was already in the water, and when it melts, it won’t affect anything. however, if the sea level does rise 7 inches, who cares. Do you live 7 inches above sea level?
December 19th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Concerning the responses up there about ice melting in water, not causing the water level to rise….
I would assume they’re talking about huge ice sheets and glaciers melting that are on LAND (upper Canada, Greenland, Himalayas, Antarctica, etc, etc, etc), thus it would be additional water entering the oceans.
December 19th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
When Ice is on land and melts into the sea the melt-water will be added to the total volume of the sea. Fourth grade science won’t cut it any more, take some responsibility people. We can not continue to use the current energy solutions and expect no problems in the future for our posterity.
December 19th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
When Greenland was actually green in the dark ages, the ocean level was about the same as it is now. That period was about 7 degrees WARMER than it is now. During the mini ice age that followed that lasted until 1830’s, the ocean level was about the same as it is now. Where do these ’scientists’ come from?
December 19th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Hey fourth-grade experimenters,have you overlooked the fact that the ice that’s melting is not only sea-ice, but land-based glaciers as well?(anyone ever heard of Greenland?) If you pile a bunch of ice-cubes on a plaform (Land) next to your glass and let the run-off drain into your glass (Sea) will it not then overflow ?
Just saying…….
December 19th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
So good to see some people starting to think things through for themselves.
Melting arctic ice will not change the level of the oceans. Deal with it.
You doomsayers need to get your facts straight. Not going to be easy due to your complete lack of them.
December 19th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
Because there was climate change before, that means that we can do no wrong, and we are doing absolutely nothing to speed up the process. Just ask any Republican. I live in Florida, and there are sharks teeth all over the whole state, it was underwater once, and it will be again. This is natural, there is no such thing as ozone depletion. Pollution complaining is socialist. – yes I am being very sarcastic.
December 19th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
Water levels are also prdicted to rise in the New York sewer system on Jan 1 2009..!
December 19th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
There a whole continent cover in at least 1000 feet of Ice that will melt and ADD water to the oceans that wasnt displacing anything. So when you add water to a full cup waht happens? This is something you can do at home too!
December 19th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
Alot of the ice is on land, not in the water. Ice melts on land level goes up. Denying the fact the we caused this isn’t going to make it go away.
December 20th, 2008 at 3:04 am
Never underestimate these five things:
1. the insatiable greed of billionaires;
2. the willingness of their purchased politicians
to please them;
3. the duplicity of rented lackeys in ‘academia’
and ‘the media’;
4. the mindless fanatic zeal of earth-worshippers;
5. the gullible stupidity of comfortable, busy
Americans.
It’s all about the hidden taxes of Cap and Trade!!! If there wasn’t any more money to be squeezed out of taxpayers, No one would care about the sky falling! Hoax of the millennia!
December 20th, 2008 at 8:22 am
This is a message for Jeff. Jeff, like many Fox News viewers (as above) and contributors -such as Sean Hannity- you use the correct argument that melting ice doesn’t raise water levels as it’s already immersed in water. However the majority of ice melt will come from land resting glaciers in places like Greenland and Antartica where the melting ice is flowing into the oceans. As for Glaciers reforming- not correct. Glaciers that are tens of thousands of years old are now disappearing at a dramitic rate. I’ve visited many of them myself but don’t take my word for it- visit some scientific websites which monitor global ice levels.
December 20th, 2008 at 8:26 am
Message for Ray- no human activity wasn’t. However previous climate change occurred over a period of hundreds if not thousands of years. Human induced climate change is forcing the climate to change in a few tens of years. It’s going to do tremendous damage to the species sharing this planet with us. We’re already well into one of the greatest mass extinctions cause directly by humanity. Climate change will add to it.
December 20th, 2008 at 10:32 am
OK, kids, here’s how it works. If the ice is floating, of course, there in no effective change in sea level. But, and here is where the light should go on to brighten up your dim little minds, if the ice is on land and melts, it adds to the volume of water in the oceans and raises sea level. And, when floating ice melts, the sea surface reflects less heat than the ice and the water warms quicker. Stop finding ways to confront science with faith and blindness.
December 20th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Sounds like some more Al Gore fantasy to me.
December 20th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
question for the moderators. Do you people deny all comments in support of the world scientific consensus or just mine? If the opposition, like your collection of like minded knuckle draggers here, is right then no one loses. Some scientists lose face. If the National Academy of Science is right then civilization will be hard pressed to survive and you guys (fox) should feel great about yourselves for pushing us toward that eventuality. Congrats.
December 21st, 2008 at 9:00 am
THIS IS THE BIGGEST HOAX SINCE ORSEN WELLES SCARED EVERYONE ABOUT AN ATTACK FROM MARS.
WEATHER IS CYCLICAL, IT WAS JUST A FEW YEARS BACK THAT WE WERE HEADED TOWARDS FROZEN TUNDRA.
THERE IS MORE TRUTH IN FICTION THAN THERE IS IN SCIENCE!
December 21st, 2008 at 12:37 pm
So what about the glaciers that is over land? Don’t know how much there is, but I guess it could make the difference.
December 21st, 2008 at 1:09 pm
I HAVE LIVED ON THE GULF OF MEXICO FOR TEN YEARS THE WATER HAS NOT RISEN A SINGLE BIT NONE!! NOTHING NADA!!!
December 21st, 2008 at 1:37 pm
The Archimedes Principle would be true if you were only referring to sea born glaciers. If the land based glaciers melted the sea levels would HAVE to go up. Go back to fourth grade science!
December 21st, 2008 at 4:33 pm
It is true that ice does displace water and that, therefore, as ice melts it will not cause a rise in water levels. However, the kitchen experiment of watching ice cubes melt in a glass of water is not good science. It fails to account for the ice that is above the waterline. A smaller proportion of a glacier is above the waterline, however, it is a significant percentage of the total mass and would create a certain amount of rise.
December 21st, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Ice that melts over land, in places like Greenland and Antarctica will raise the sea level. It is my understanding that most of the ice in the world is over land, not floating in the oceans. But there are a lot of other factors that I know I don’t have the answers for.
For example, Antarctica is not flat. Much of the ice is on mountains. The same is true for Greenland. Will that snow melt as fast the ice floating in the Arctic? Probably not.
We know that glaciers in some areas are receding rapidly, growing elsewhere. Do the models use an average over the world, or do they use thousands of data points?
Given that tides and storm cause way more variation than the rise that is predicted, is it even significant? (Probably for the Maldive islands but who else?)
Without knowing a lot more about the study, the biases of the participants, and their funding, it is impossible to know the likelyhood of their models being correct.
December 21st, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Glaciers are not on the water floating…they are large masses of ice sitting on top of land. As they melt the water makes its way back to the ocean.
It’s absurd how many people do not believe in climate change. It’s a part of Earth’s natural evoultion. Parts of Texas near San Antonio use to at one time be UNDER the ocean. You can find coral shells in cliff faces.
Sea ice melting will not cause the ocean to rise because it is already floating around in the water. However anything on land that makes it’s way into the water will raise ocean levels. It is simple physics.
8 ounces of water becomes 9 ounces if you add another ounce…
December 21st, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Any increase in sea levels would only come from melting, land-based glaciers, as these are not currently affecting sea levels. The primary concern then would be the Greenland and Antarctic glacial masses. The difficulty here SEEMS to be that neither are melting all that quickly, according to some information sources cited by Michael Crichton in “State of Fear”.
Having said that, history shows how quickly climatic systems can alter. Thus, the most pragmatic course, while ignoring the man-made climate change hysteria, is to look at plans to deal with the possible results of whatever change might come.
That would truly be a progressive move.
December 22nd, 2008 at 10:17 am
Arrogant bunch of …
This is the new way of controlling how people will live
December 22nd, 2008 at 10:29 am
Why does ice float? When water gets cold, it ’sinks’ and just before it freezes, it ‘rises’ to the surface. Thats why lakes can be frozen, and fish and other creatures still survive underneath- they aren’t frozen in the water.
Now think about that: the density of water(frozen) is less than the density of water(liquid). Thats why ice floats, it is less dense. Even though it occupies more volume, it is less dense.
Now to get to your “experiments” and the so called extra research you’ve done: When your ice cube melts in your cup, where is the ice cube?
…
…
You have it submerged in the water.
Polar ice caps are only partially submerged in water. Remember that earth has a process that returns moisture to the surface i.e. snowing. Polar ice caps are many many layers of frozen moisture. When it melts (returns to liquid), it DOES take up less space as a liquid, but it wasnt on the surface (of the ocean) before; it was a layer on top of the glacier.
Ice floats, it can penetrate the surface (of the ocean); it builds up (vertically)
Sorry if this sounds confusing, just wanted to help clarify the conclusions that every scientist makes re: polar ice melting
I dont know if anyone takes wikipedia as an authority:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level_rise
December 22nd, 2008 at 11:46 am
Seas rise because the ice is not all floating, it is over land in canada, greenland, and antarctica. Since most of the ice discussed is over land, it currently is not displacing water. Redo the ice in the glass experiment by placing the ice above the water on a filter, then, as it melts, it WILL raise water levels.
December 22nd, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Such rubbish. Are these so called experts trying to scare everyone. In the past when the weather changed they did not have factories, cars etc. What caused the weather to change. The scientists have had their five minutes, get a life. Stop trying to justify getting more money from the government and other sources. Get a real job and make a honest living.
December 22nd, 2008 at 1:06 pm
More Lies and deceit from Hansen and his merry men
December 22nd, 2008 at 1:24 pm
I measured, three times, the melting of ice in a cup and the water level dropped slightly. And there has been precious little discussion of the past climate warmings (known as the climate optimum) in the dire warnings of these so-called “scientists” who are really politicians in disguise.
If you ask me, this entire global warming thing is a socialist experiment and land grab with the goal of scaring people.
This global warming crowd is pushing the worst kind of science and deserve no consideration from the people of this country.
December 22nd, 2008 at 1:39 pm
They are not talking about ocean ice melting and raising water levels. They are talking about the land bound glaciers melting ie: Greenland, Arctic (ice nearly 2 miles deep) that ice melting WILL rasie levels considerably.
December 22nd, 2008 at 2:57 pm
IT’S ALL A BIG SCAM-HOW MUCH MONEY IS BEING MADE
IN THE EFFORT TO GO GREEN?
December 22nd, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Hey, ice cube guys, the melting ice that will make the oceans rise is on… HELLO! LAND!
December 22nd, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Just to calibrate the level of commmentary on this blog: 3 out of the 9 posts are about sea levels not rising when sea ice melts. Absolutely true, and completely irrelevant!
The concern is about the vast ice sheets of Antarctica and, to a lesser extent, Greenland, all of which are resting on solid land. If they melt, the melt water will flow from the land into the ocean, increasing the volume of water in the ocean, and raising the sea level. More catastrophically, because quicker, they could even slide, as ice, into the sea before they’ve had a chance to melt.
December 22nd, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Glaciers are on land not in the sea, if it is in the sea it is called an iceberg. Therefore, when a glacier melts it is water on land that flows into the sea, raising the level. That is simple 3rd grade learning there folks. I think most of you could not get past the second grade on “Smarter Than a 5th Grader”.
December 22nd, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Sorry guys but glaciers are not ice cubes. They are like a river of ice that moves slowly over land. They do eventally make it to water and break off into the ocean and cause ice burgs. see also continental ice sheet; does anyone here even have a college education? Highschool?
December 22nd, 2008 at 6:31 pm
ok all i have to say is that you all are idiots!! yes when ice melts in a glass the water level goes down but we are not talking about ice melting in the ocean we are talking about glacers and ice sheets on land that are melting which is causing sea levels to rise. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU TRY TO DISCREDIT SCIENTISTS.
December 23rd, 2008 at 7:31 am
It WILL rise, I’m telling you.
for I know.
I am the great Oz…
er….. Gore….
December 23rd, 2008 at 9:26 am
I wonder if these “sceintist” have looked at the weather in the past two years. There have been record “lows” that have not been seen in over 40 years and just walk out your door right now and tell me where the global warming is affecting because I’m sure the people in the midwest and northeast would love some global warming right now. Does some adverse affect of global warming cause it to snow in Las Vegas? I live in Alabama and it didn’t get above 40 here yesterday, another record low. El Nino is what caused a warmer increase in tempatures over a period of time but that affect is gone now and will cycle back through every so often, using true science and having an honest unbiased agenda, you can see this evidence. Ignorance causes fear.
December 23rd, 2008 at 10:53 am
Sea levels will fall. Water expands and becomes less dense when it freezes – that why it floats. Sea levels should drop as the result of melting polar icecaps – putting more fresh water in circulation, leading to more evaporation leading to drought mitigation. Hoorah for global warming – whatever is causing it.
December 23rd, 2008 at 11:07 am
Glaciers are sheets of ice….most are not just floating around in the water like the icebergs are….Greenland is an island covered in ice…so when it melts it would be like pouring water into your cup that is already full.
December 23rd, 2008 at 11:12 am
It is funny how so many people are doing all they can to dismiss what is really happening. What is so wrong with finding alternate fuel and energy sources? Why not make things better for the environment? A lot of people are so much against “global warming”, I have to ask, why? It doesnt really matter if you believe in GW or not, is it right to dump trash in the ocean? Is it not better for all of us to breath cleaner air? I mean seriously people why are you so resistant to making a few Changes in your personal habits? Why are you so resistant to new ideas and new things? Even if Global Warming isnt as catastrophic as all these Scientists make it out to be, what is so wrong with doing things better, cleaner and smarter?
December 23rd, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Floating ice when it melts will not raise ocean levels – this is correct and taken into account by the models. Thus,this is NOT the ice they are refering to when discussing ocean levels. The ice that matters is on land and there is more of that than currently floating.
The earth does naturally warm and cool and we are in a natural warming period – that is also correct. However, mankind can now speed that process along. Is it smart to take a process that would have taken hundreds of thousands of years and make it happen in our lifetimes?
America needs to take the lead on green technologies. It will make the US stronger economically and more secure. Do you really want to keep funding nations that hate you? Is that smart?
December 23rd, 2008 at 12:47 pm
The seas have risen well over a hundred feet since
the last ice age. So What ? Man will adapt and will be just fine. The sky is not falling and chicken little need not fear. Just move to higher ground.
Climate changes. Look at the positive aspects.
An unfrozen arctic ocean offers many positive opportunities. The frozen tundra of Siberia, Alaska, Canada etc. would make great places to grow wheat & corn..Man will adapt and we will be just fine..I am not worried about climate change and do not care.
December 23rd, 2008 at 12:52 pm
The rise in sea level is because warmer water takes up more room than colder water, which makes sea levels go up, a process known as thermal expansion.
December 23rd, 2008 at 4:24 pm
I believe the issue is the Ice Sheets that are melting on land masses like Antartica and Greenland. These ice sheets are melting and flowing off the land into the water.
I’m not a man made global warming fan….but natural cycles do happen. What will be will be.
December 23rd, 2008 at 5:52 pm
About 70% of the earth are oceans, containing over 1.3 billion cubic kilometers of water. How much water would you have to add to this massive “Pool” to raise the level worldwide one inch, let alone several feet? Where is this extra water coming from that will raise it any level? There’s only so much water on earth. Nothing but a hoax, pure and simple.
December 23rd, 2008 at 8:43 pm
One more time the greenie weenies are endeavoring to mislead the public and it is notable that Fox News goes along with the “Man is at fault” crowd as they simply post this nonsense.
December 23rd, 2008 at 11:53 pm
Without expressing any opinion on the claims of global warming or its causes and effects, there is something misunderstood in much of this discussion:
When ice is floating in a glass and it melts, the water level may not rise. The same can be said of pack ice floating in the Arctic.
However, glacial ice is not floating in the ocean. It is sliding down the mountains above them. Most of the ice in Greenland and Antarctica is sitting on land, not floating in the ocean.
When you let an ice cube slide down the side of a glass into the water, the water level does rise. If you let the cube melt over the glass, the water level rises.
That rise may or may not be offset by other effects, but melting glacial ice and melting floating ice do have different effects on sea levels.
December 24th, 2008 at 12:15 am
It is true that when ice that is floating in water melts, the water level stays the same (more or less — water is actually most dense at 4 degrees Celcius).
But much of the ice that is melting (e.g. glaciers in the Rocky Mountains, Greenland, etc.) is not floating in water — they’re on land. So all that water adds to the water in the sea.
The other thing is that as water heats up, even though it is still liquid, it expands.
December 24th, 2008 at 12:45 am
The ice has all melted before and it will again. However, the sea levels rising is a myth. A scare tactic. I guess a good example is to fill a glass with ice and then fill with water and mark the water level. Let the ice melt. You will then notice that the water level is actually lower. Give it a try.
December 24th, 2008 at 12:57 am
It’s not the melting of icebergs that’s the issue, it’s glaciers that are on land, which melt and run off into the sea.
December 24th, 2008 at 9:34 am
The glaciers are on land (not floating on water)– so their melting will cause ocean levels to rise.
December 24th, 2008 at 11:36 am
News flash!! Glaciers are land based! They melt into the ocean and increase the water volume. o_O
December 24th, 2008 at 11:45 am
Floating ice displaces water equal to its weight, and therefore its melting does not increase the height of the water. Ice on land (i.e. the antarctic but not the arctic ice) will transform to water and then flow into the ocean, adding to its total volume (and therefore height).
Apparently 4th grade science class did not include geology.
December 24th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Jeff, Walter and Paul
Do you not realize that most of the ice is not in the water but on land, Look at a map of Antartica and Greenland, Thats land buried under miles of ice in most areas thousands of feet deep thats discharging its melt water into the oceans of the world. 836,109 square miles for Greenland and 5,297,321 square miles of ice covered land for Antarctica, Fill your bathtub up to the top and pour a bucket of water into it, tell me what happens, Oh Yeaaaa, it raises the water level and floods.
December 24th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Way to go Foxnews. Global warming junk science needs another media outlet. You guys can’t seem to figure out when to go for the truth, or to go with the crowd.
December 24th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
@Paul, You are right that sea levels won’t rice when the Arctic ice melts. It will rise when the ice on Greenland and the ice in the ANTarctic. Those Ice sheets are on land and do not currently float on the surface of the water.
When thousands of good and honest scientists are saying something is a problem, you should listen.
December 24th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
There are a significant number of famous glaciers that are dramatically receding. These melt and increase the flow of water from mountains to the ocean through the rivers they feed. If anybody is having difficulty believing this, a quick trip to google earth with the climate awareness layers enabled will show them all the changes our planet is undergoing right now. Simply enable the UNEP: Atlas of Our Changing Planet layer under the Global Awareness layers tab. You can look at glaciers in greenland and read about how quickly things are changing there. The Kangerdlugssuaq Glacier’s rate of flow has “more than doubled between 2000 and 2005.”
Of course you could just think your 4th grade science experiment serves as proper climactic evidence of whatever you want it to prove. Perhaps somebody could publish your findings in a journal of science? Maybe you might become the next famous scientist who showed the world’s scientists how wrong they were with your glass of ice water.
December 24th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
While it is technically true that melting sea ice does not increase sea levels, LAND ICE does. Sea ice not only reflects heat and slows warming, but it also slows the migration of land ice. Once sea ice has melted, land ice speeds its migration into the oceans. Greenland is already losing huge amounts of land ice.
Think of the sea ice as the canary in the mine. Once its gone, things really start to get bad rapidly.
December 24th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
Has anyone heard of Arcimedes? he has some interesting “PRINCIPLES”.
December 24th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Ahhh, global warming. Even NASA’s Dr. Hansen(Algore’s top advisor on global warming) admits he exagerated the effects of AGW in order to “Get your attention”. All this nonesense is about power and the acquisition thereof. NO SCIENCE NEEDED.
December 24th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
The fact is in spite of so called global warming over the last hundred years, sea levels have not risen during the last hundred years. Beach houses on both coasts have the same amount of real estate, absent sand removal and replacement from storms.
December 24th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
“More than two trillion tons of land ice in Greenland, Antarctica and Alaska have melted since 2003, according to new NASA satellite data…” and the rate appears to be accelerating. This is ice on land, not floating in the ocean.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/12/17/america/climate.php
December 24th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Some of the rise in sea level is due to melting of the non-floating ice, i.e. the glaciers sitting on top of rock. Consider the Greenland ice — when it melts, the water will run down to the sea. And there is a lot of water tied up in glaciers in Antarctica, Greenland, other northern lands, etc. The effect of the melting northern sea ice is to make it easier for the land-bound glaciers to slide faster into the sea, where they will melt faster as they float south (the sea ice pack often acts as a barrier to the land-bound glaciers). If you don’t believe this, please move to south Florida or the gulf coast.
December 24th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
The Archimedes principle certainly applies for icebergs that are in water. But Glaciers that are land-based would add to the total volume of water in the oceans. The other thing to note, however, is that when water freezes it expands thus displacing more ocean water than the water returned to the oceans when the iceburgs melt. Also, when Icebergs melt they do not crack but they do crack if they are growing. Check it out.
December 24th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
Basically if the weight of the water needed to occupy the same volume as an object is more than the weight of the object, the object will float. Since a rock weighs more than the same volume of water, it sinks. Water actually expands as it freezes so it occupies a greater volume as ice than it does when it is water so it floats. Any object that floats, displaces a volume of water equal to its weight. So, when ice is floating in water (ice cubes, icebergs and the ice in the Artic Ocean), it has already displaced a volume of water equal to its weight. This displacement shows up as a rise in sea level. As the ice melts, the ice gradually changes to water, but the total weight is the same, just some is now water and the rest is ice. So, as the ice melts, the sea level will basically not change. However, if as the ice melts, some of it evaporates and say forms clouds, then the sea level would actually drop a tiny bit since the sea is no longer supporting the weight of the water that evaporated.
Now ice that has its weight supported by land does not raise the level of the sea (glaciers, the ice on Greenland, the ice on Antartica, etc.). When this ice melts and if its water flows to the ocean, the sea level rises since the sea is not supporting the original weight of the ice but now gains the weight (and volume) of the water from the melting ice.
So, the loss of ice in the Artic Ocean may be a sign that the weather at the North Pole is warmer, but the sea level has not changed because of it. However, the ice in the world’s glaciers, Greenland and Antartica is also melting and it will raise the level of the sea and these sources have a lot of ice.
December 25th, 2008 at 1:13 am
How much do we pay these “scientists”? They have carved out a secure niche for themselves as part of the 150 years of alarmist reporting about warming or cooling.
Even grade-school science tells us the freezing of water increases its volume by 10% (and thereby bursts its containers). Does it not therefore stand to reason the oceans’ levels could DECREASE dramatically with large-scale melting?
If their premise is correct that widespread warming will melt polar regions, the results would be cold water flowing toward the tropics, causing cooling.
Natural climactic cycles have resulted in cooling since 1998; all warming of the past 20 years to 1998 has been erased by the cooling of the past 10 years, and yet these scientists seem to be dreadfully unaware.
December 25th, 2008 at 2:17 am
If the ice is higher than sea level, and is not displacing water (eg. in Antarctica, it’s held up by land), when it melts, there will be more water. The north pole probably won’t have this effect though. Either way I doubt the amount of added water would be significant enough to raise the sea level much.
December 26th, 2008 at 12:02 am
It’s funny how we have been listening to these global warming / climate change threats from Al Gore’s Company of Clowns and yet nothing happens. Where are all of the hurricanes? Earthquakes? Why are the poles actually freezing up thicker and sooner than predicted, as well as compared to historic events?
How long is it going to take people to wise up and see Al Gore, Bill Ritter, and the rest of these people for the charlatans they are? Has anyone figured out how much money these global warming kooks have made since they went on their bandwagon, sky-is-falling parade of fear mongering? I’ll bet they have put more dollars in their pockets than facts produced to prove them right.
Gardie
December 26th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
This “ice cubes in my cup don’t raise the level” garbage is the latest ruse climate change deniers are tossing around. The ice that will raise the ocean levels isn’t “inside the cup.” It’s above sea level. Try filling your fast-food drink with ice from the machine. Under this cockamamie theory, you could fill your cup with ice to infinity and the drink level would never change. Try it. But make sure you have lots of napkins around.
Global warming is real, and it’s coming soon to a location near you. Deny it or not, it’s coming, and you’re being unbelievably dense to pretend it won’t affect. Conservatives tend to operate out of fear. This is you. Fear won’t work. Action will work.
December 26th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
The problem is an out-of-control human population explosion. A good long war, famine, pestilince will take care of that. Remember it was the Black Plague that brought the end of serfdom and increase wages of freemen. FDR’s New Deal didn’t break the stranglehold of the Great Depression – World War II did. Need more examples?
December 27th, 2008 at 6:21 am
1) they talked about glaciers melting… not sea ice…
2) there are no “new glaciers” forming… tropical zone ones are nearly gone and all temperate zone glaciers are retreating (melting).
3) The primary reason for the rise in ocean levels is due to the thermal co-efficient of water: a warm water takes up more room than cold water.
4) the threat in the northern hemisphere is the dilution of sea water in the North Atlantic with melted polar ice: the fresh water “floats” and is carried by the Gulf Steam… because it is less dense than sea water it does not sink once cooled to return to the mid-south atlantic and recharge the gulf steam. Result: relatively warm N. Europe looses the gulf effect, becomes like labrador… equals a collapse of the Euro-temperate zone… eg; new ice age.
5) historic ice age events were not caused by man, true. Just as prehistoric forest fires were not (typically) caused by man… but that doesn’t keep man’s current activity from causing fires, or an ice age.
Only “Fact” that I can support: you can not release a 500 million year accretion of carbon in 100 years without some profound effect.
December 27th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Some of these comments must have been left by complete idiots. Yes, melted sea ice will not cause the oceans to rise, but the ice on Greenland and Antartica is not sea ice, it is on land. Melt a piece of ice OVER a cup of water, letting the melted ice drip into the cup, then measure the water level in the cup. Even a 4th grader can tell you what will happen. Next time, don’t make an arguement without checking out all the facts first.
December 27th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
The ice that is worrisome is not the ice floating in the oceans. It is the ice sheets that cover arctic land in Canada, Greenland, Antarctica, and on mountains throughout the world. Don’t fool yourself–as those ice sheets melt and flow into the ocean the seas will rise.
December 27th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
Why do a lot of Americans insist global warming is a conspiracy? Do you think the world’s most emminent scientists would agree man made global is a fact when it isn’t? Why can’t you accept scientific evidence?
December 27th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
The reality is that no one can say for sure what will happen when all this ice melts.
14,000 years ago the ocean level was 300 feet lower than today. 11,000 years ago at the end of the Ice Age the ocean levels approach what they are today. Where was that water 14,000 years ago, and where did the water 11,000 years ago come from?
I’m not too concerned with the level of the ocean. What should be of concern is what happens to the Atlantic and Japanese currents if they have too much fresh water dumped into them. That -will- change the climate.
December 27th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
it’s not the floating sea ice that’ll cause the oceans to rise it’s 1)the landbound ice in the southpole. and 2)thermal expansion at temperature rise (when you heat water it expands)
December 29th, 2008 at 10:53 am
I can see the basics of Geolgy have escaped a couple of the FoxFans (Im actually not surprised) The glaciers which these SCIENTISTS are talking about are ON THE LAND, and when they melt the water runs off INTO THE SEA so for you coffee cup analogists…thats what causes the sea level to rise!
December 29th, 2008 at 11:35 am
Sure, melting floating ice won’t cause water levels to rise. Duh! Now rub a few brain cells together and see if you can think of any huge chunks of ice that AREN’T floating. Sheesh!
December 29th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
i think the whole oceans rising is a load of BS. scientists also said in the year 2000 all computer equipment would have issues b/c on the 00 and the computer would think its 1900. these scientists in Nothern Europe should spend all the tax payers money on helping PEOPLE with AIDS cancer and other deadly things hurting people now, not oceans going up a big 7 inches over 100 years, wow we loss 7 inches of coastline every 100 years so what thats one person not fitting on the beach.
December 30th, 2008 at 9:05 am
I’m glad to see that people are starting to wake up and realize that this whole “global warming” thing is just a big lie, set out to make other like Al Gore richer and the rest of us poorer.
The Earth has heated up and cooled down many, many times with or without mankinds presence and it will continue to do so. Oceans will also continue to rise and fall as well. It is really pretty stupid for people to think that the Earth doesn’t change, it always has in the past.
December 30th, 2008 at 9:53 am
What twaddle. Kinda funny how Fox News launched this silly green site at just about the time when global warming dogma is being so thoroughly undermined by more credible science.
December 30th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
To Jeff, and for Paul Grimard:
Land-based Arctic ice isn’t already in the ocean. Ocean-based Arctic Ice won’t change the sea level, but the land-based Artic Ice is like melting an ice cube and adding that melt to a cup already full of water.
To experiment: freeze some water on a plate — make the plate pretty full if you can, ideally using a deep plate.
Next, take a glass of water about 3/4 full and add enough ice cubes to bring the water level close to the top — within 1/4″.
Finally, melt the plate of ice (microwave it or oven or however, depending on what’s available and whether the plate is safe to use with the method you choose).
When the ice that covered the plate is converted to water, (carefully — ‘cuz it might be hot) pour that water into the glass containing the ice cubes.
It overflows.
Not all Arctic ice is ocean-based, and massive amounts of ice covering Greenland and other land masses are melting at an accelerated rate.
Thus, they will add water to the oceans and the sea level will rise.
December 30th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
To “Doubt” — sea levels have indeed been rising the last few years.
Here are several links to science-based publications and articles:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/02/060217091552.htm
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/gornitz_09/
http://www.iop.org/EJ/article/1748-9326/2/2/024002/erl7_2_024002.html
Simply making a statement as though it is fact doesn’t help — the facts are readily available.
December 30th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Will Thorpe: some glacial growth would be expected. The earth is a dynamic system, not a partly frozen basketball in a box, so changes will include an ebb and flow.
Here’s an article that should help explain it a bit better:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/09/060911-growing-glaciers.html
Hope that helps.
December 30th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Loren: “A Tangled Web” — heh, interesting.
Particularly the source name.
“Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.” — Sir Walter Scott (Marmion, 1808)
December 30th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Ray Whitten: What does human activity at the time of prehistoric climate changes have to with the repeatedly proven facts regarding human activity’s impact on the climate and environment now?
That’s a straw-man argument — there’s no connection and no relevance to making that “comparison.”
December 30th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
The 4th grade experiment logic has flaws. Ice goes down in the cup when it melts because it couldn’t spread out before. And the melting ice they are trying to show concern for is all currently on land (Greenland etc.) But I say who cares! The people who care own beachfront property. (Like Manhattan Island and the Florida Penninsula) But given enough time people will just move farther from the beach. And land that was cheap before will suddenly increase in value. Life will go on with new rules. That sounds great to me.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
DUMB ASSES!! GLACIERS ARE LAND BOUND AND ALOT OF LARGE ICE SHEETS ARE ALSO. MOST OF THE ICE IN ANARTICA IS LAND BOUD, AS IS GREENLAND, ICELAND, ETC.
December 30th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
As far as the ice melting in water you guys are completely correct. The Artic ocean melting wont make the seas rise. The reason the sea will rise s that the glaciers in north america, Greenland and Antartica are not in the water, they are on land. That is new water being added to the ocean which makes the water rise. Antartica for example, has ice that is almost 9,000 feet thick in some places. These glaciers ARE melting and the seas WILL rise. I do not doubt that there are new glaciers forming in some places. A better term for Gobal Warming is Global Wierding because of new weather patterns a various temperature changes (but positive and negative) throughout the world. If you think its B.S., take a look at who is paying the nay-saying scientists, its almost always an oil company. I dont know what exaclty will happen and I dont believe in some apocolyptic scenario, but we do need to vasty improve our energy usage, bottom line
December 30th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
About sea levels rising, Jeff of Dec 17th is right in saying ice cubes melting do not add water. This is only true of icebergs, that are already floating in the sea. When glaciers are on top of land, or big pieces fall off to make a new iceberg, this is added water to oceans. The glaciers melting on mountaintops (Himilayans) threatens the main water supply of millions, as this is the source of river water flowing year round. Read more here:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/09/040922072126.htm
December 30th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
You must take into account that the melting ice that will raise sea levels is coming from ice melting on land, and then running into the sea. It is not coming from ice that is already in the ocean and is melting. This will raise sea levels.
December 30th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Just a point of clarification, glaciers are on land, so their melting would cause a rise in sea levels. I stil don’t see how any of this is our fault, just the natural course of things.
December 30th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
re.jeff
most of that ice isnt in water most of its on dirt and soil which can be found 14000 ft underneth the ice
December 30th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
Glaciers are not like giant ice cubes. Most glaciers are on land. Some glaciers and snow pack in the Antarctic are hundreds of feet thick. Glaciers in Alaska, Canada, Siberia and Greenland are also on land and in the mountains. When they melt the water runs into the sea and causes the level to rise. This is more like adding water to your glass rather than having ice melt in the glass. Only in the Arctic is most of the ice and snow pack over water so that when it melts there is less effect on the sea level.
December 30th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
I regret to inform those scientists that look at these micro ecological events as something of significance … it’s best to get your heads out of the soil and look up once in a while. When the Yellowstone Caldera blows (within the next 10 days or 100 years) all of your posturing will be for naught. Although, you’ll figure out some way to blame the human race for this natural occurrence. Understand … the earth will “fix” itself when it gets good and ready to do so.
December 30th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
I thought that glaciers were ice that was (at least partially) on land? I guess with all the kitchen experiments, if you took some of the ice out of the cup and melted it the results might be different.
December 30th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
North pole ice melting won’t raise sea level at all, but for glaciers that are attached to land, their melting could cause sea levels to rise. For example, Antarctic glaciers. A better analogy is to place a platform in the glass that is NOT floating, but anchored to the bottom, then place an ice cube on top of it. Naturally as the water melts, it will raise the water level.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070731164236AABIA74
Far more troubling than sea levels rising is the change in ocean currents as temperatures change, which will change dramatically with even minor changes.
If you want to see sea level changes you have to look a bit longer term than “the last few years”. It’s only called “global warming” because the /average/ temperature of the Earth will rise, some areas will get much colder, and some will simply see different weather, which is why scientists now prefer the term “climate change” as it’s less misleading.
Hope that clarifies a bit:-)
Alex
December 30th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
It seems that most comments on this subject come from people with a fourth grade education and absoloutly no common sense. It is a simple law of physics…for every action there is a REACTION…we cannot continue to pump billions of tons of waste in the air, ground, and water and expect no repercussions. Just because you dont think or want something to happen doesn’t mean it is not happening…We need to pull our heads out of the sand and look at how we are raping this planet. I would guess most commenting do not live in a place where the air is difficult to breathe because of the pollution…
December 30th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
More scare tactics designed to make Elite Eco Activist rich. Hopefully we will get past this just like the flat earth theory that was politically correct a few hundred years ago.
Perhaps burning a few of those perpetrating the global warming fraud at the stake would put and end to this idiocy.
December 30th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
“I call it a fourth grade science experiment. Take a glass, put some ice in it. Put water in it. Mark level where water is. Let it met. After the ice melts, the sea level didn’t go up in your glass of water. It’s called the Archimedes Principle.”
That supposition is true if all the ice that was melting was floating in the water. The statement above looks at what Icebergs do. Let’s look at the definition of Glacier.
gla⋅cier /ˈgleɪʃər/ [gley-sher]
–noun an extended mass of ice formed from snow falling and accumulating over the years and moving very slowly, either descending from high mountains, as in valley glaciers, or moving outward from centers of accumulation, as in continental glaciers.
The water that makes up Glaciers on land is what they are worried about with sea levels rising. Icebergs melting doesn’t matter, except for the fact that it can lower the temperature of water, which can also mess up the flow of water, and as such, the flow of the Jet Streams.
December 30th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
I reviewed my electric and natural gas bills from the last five years (the utility companies have an avg temp for the months over the year on bill) I notice that we have been getting colder over the years according to this. So where the heat?\
That is my scientific study and I have the proof….
ps The forecasted weather for the interior of Alaska this winter is 40-70 BELOW ZERO. Pretty darn hot I think.
December 31st, 2008 at 12:03 am
Melting of ice in the Arctic Ocean will definitely not cause sea level to rise.
BUT, sea level does rise when land-based ice melts (e.g., mainly Greenland and Antarctic ice) – those are the areas of concern and both, especially Greenland, as showing lots of signs of increasing melting.
Sea level also rises as global temperatures increase because water expands slightly as it is heated (and it’s density decreases).
Global warming (meaning an increase in the average global temperature) could potentially cause northern Europe to get colder. If you look at map you will notice that much of northern Europe is at very high latitudes – more northernly than the Hudson’s Bay, which is very cold during the winter. Western Europe is warmer than you would think, if you just looked at its latitude, because the Gulf Stream brings warm water from the Gulf of Mexico and central Atlantic Ocean to high northern latitudes. If that flow of warm water stopped, and there is evidence of this happening in the past, northern Europe would become much colder even as average global temperatures increased.
December 31st, 2008 at 12:20 am
Old hippies and their brainwashed kids, what will they think of next, vegetarians saying cows pass to much gas and we should reduce the stock, the only real thing is the communists are taking over, that is obvious.
December 31st, 2008 at 1:05 am
Melting ice in the ocean, if the ice originated in the ocean will not raise sea level. Ice that has formed glaciers on land however, then “flowed” into the oceans, like those in Greenland an antarctica add solid water to the the ocean. Water flowing downhill into the seas from ice melting on mountains also contributes to the total amount of free water in the seas. If you keep adding ice and/or liquid to a container, it will cause the level of liquid o rise.
It is that simple.
Take ice that was once covering Greenlan, Antartica, or mountains and add it to the oceans and he ocean level will rise.
There isn’t any overflow to prevent that.
December 31st, 2008 at 7:41 am
Jeff… try your experience again, this time starting by holding that same ice cube above the cup until all the ice melted into the cup, the water level would then rise…. the melting ice that affects sea level, rise is not within the ocean, but above it.
December 31st, 2008 at 8:32 am
Forgive me if I sound stupid. The above argument states “Since glaciers are like giant ice cubes, wouldn’t their melting not affect the ocean levels?”
The reason that this is incorrect is that the the Greenland and Antarctic Ice caps are not floating in the ocean. These 2 huge Ice caps are resting on land dry land withe the exception of a couple of Ice Shelves, therefore if they melt the water is going to pour form the land into the oceans. This is what causes the sea level to rise. Also alpine and tropical glaciers melting adds water to the oceans because the frozen water tied up in the glaciers on these mountains is not currently in the ocean. I hope this makes sense.
Tommy
December 31st, 2008 at 10:35 am
Water borne/supported ice melt will not raise sea levels.
Ice melt from LAND supported ice WILL raise sea levels!
December 31st, 2008 at 10:51 am
Human activity was NOT responsible for rapid climate shift in ancient history. Human population levels were very low. All animal life releases substantial amounts of methane gas. ANIMAL populations were extremely high. Geologic activity may have had sufficient effect to change things dramatically… ie: Volcanos, Rapid release of pockets of “frozen” methane gas held in layers on the ocean floors. This is a result of decomposition of marine life. With global warming running as it is, we run the risk of causing this frozen methane to evaporate quickly,releasing it into the atmosphere. If this were to happen all at once, we could have a planetary firestorm.
December 31st, 2008 at 11:27 am
… Over the next hundred years? 2 Feet? OMG! Panic! How will people ever get out of the way in time!
More fearmongering by the mainstream media. Its a shame its Fox this time.
December 31st, 2008 at 12:19 pm
You’re not thinking of this correctly. Glaciers are not “giant ice cubes”. Not all of the ice that is melting is floating on the ocean. While it is true that ice melting in water does not change the level of water, ice melting on land and draining into the oceans does. Put a funnel over a glass of water, put an ice cube into the funnel and let it melt, it will overfill the glass.
December 31st, 2008 at 12:40 pm
The reason the sea level with rise isn’t from melting floating ice such as north polar cap and icebergs…
It is because of landlocked ice such as glaciers and south polar cap ice.
That WILL increase the sea level.
December 31st, 2008 at 1:47 pm
the ice cube experament only works for glaciers that are floating in the ocean. in places like antartica and greenland where glaciers are sitting on land when thay melt water levels will rise
December 31st, 2008 at 1:51 pm
To answer Jeff, Walter and Paul you are indeed correct but you are all missing the point here… it’s not the sea ice that will be a problem, it’s the glaciers and ice sheets on land melting that will cause sea level to rise. Has anyone heard of Greenland, Antarctica?
Also, ice works as a sort of reflector for the sun’s heat (increases the earth’s albedo), so if sea ice does melt the earth will absorb the heat it would previously have reflected causing more ice to melt, and so on.
December 31st, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Very surprised that fox has jumped on the junk science bandwagon with this green.foxnews.com. And reprinting junk science news articles from all of the world. Where’s the balance ? article on temperatures rises that have already by proven to be inaccurate because of bad science. Water levels rising from ice melts which have no basis in physics. 2008, the coldest year on record in decades.Record snowfalls all over the world.Snow in Malibu, Houston and New Orleans this year. You’re going to discourage your readership base with this nonsense.
December 31st, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Ice that is completely immersed in water would lower the water level slightly when melting because water is denser than ice. Things that are less dense than water will float while things more dense than water will sink…for an object to float, the amount of water it must displace must equal it’s own weight. Since ice is less dense than water, it will displace enough water to match it’s weight. Since ice is less dense, some of the ice will stick out above the water. When it melts, it could potentially raise the water…how high do these glaiciers stick out of the water?
I am not advocating proof that the sea levels are rising or falling, I am simply showing that there are a lot more variables to consider than these green hippies are trying to force scientists to feed to us.
December 31st, 2008 at 3:18 pm
With all the hype that is going on with the media, I was a little OMG at first till I turned off the TV and looked at simple principles. The effects of global warming (if you agree with it or not) say the glaciers are melting and are going to raise sea levels. Well I don’t know how many cubic miles of ice are in antartica etc, but in the N Pole, this is an ocean, the sea level would drop.
I think it is just the standard alarming call to promote action on the subject. Save the polar bears, they are getting stranded on iceburgs etc…
It seems odd that one group shows global warming while other groups show global cooling. Someone needs to lock these idiots (ohh I mean scientists) in a room till they come to a conclusion based on scientifically reliable research and trending.. I mean seriously, DOES GLOBAL WARMING CAUSE SNOWING IN NEW ORLEANS?????
December 31st, 2008 at 3:25 pm
You Shouldn’t be worried about floating ice, but definitely be alert on ice melts over land in Antartica thousands of meters thick and in Artic
area including Northern Asia and Greenland.
December 31st, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Perhaps because when ice melts, it creates a thermal expansion of sea water (i.e. temperature increase = expansion of water and the area it consumes). It’s more than just ice melting and the displacement of water. When something warms up, it expands.
In a cup, the theory is most likely moot. However, when you apply that to approximately 326,000,000,000,000,000,000 gallons of water our Earth holds, it becomes a slightly larger issue, even if it only affects the levels by 0.000001%.
I see what many of you are saying about ice in a cup and the displacement of water. But none of you are taking into consideration the expansion that takes place when it warms.
December 31st, 2008 at 5:29 pm
It’s called the Archimedes principle and in fact floating ice displaces more water then it contains. Though, I’m not sure how much of the world’s ice is already in the water and what percentage is on land. Also water can expand when the temperature rises(Thermal Expansion) causing the sea levels to rise without the help of melting icecaps, but the Oceans are so big that the current temperature has no effect on the current sea-level. The world’s ocean will not show the temperature rise of the 20th Century for at least a few more centuries. So the current rise cannot be do to the present temperature and little to do with ice-caps. Perhaps, what we are experiencing now is a result of the climate of a few hundred years ago, before the time of the SUV.
He may have fancy charts and graphs, but Al Gore trying to explain a scientific process is like Dan Quayle trying to judge a spelling Bee.
December 31st, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Al Gore wants to make a lot of money on this scam . Let’s not help him .
December 31st, 2008 at 7:51 pm
NOBODY knows and that includes the man that invented the internet, Al G.