09
Japan to Beam Solar Power from Space on Lasers
By Huw Borland, Sky News Online
Fox News
Japan is aiming to collect solar power in space and zap it down to Earth using laser beams or microwaves. The government has picked companies and researchers to turn the multi-billion pound dream of unlimited clean energy into reality by 2030.
Japan has few energy resources of its own and is heavily reliant on oil imports. The predicament has forced the country to become a leader in solar and other renewable energies. This year it set ambitious greenhouse gas reduction targets, but its boldest plan to date is the Space Solar Power System.
It involves an array of photovoltaic dishes, reaching across several square miles, that hover in geostationary orbit outside the Earth’s atmosphere.
“Since solar power is a clean and inexhaustible energy source, we believe that this system will be able to help solve the problems of energy shortage and global warming,” Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, one of the project participants, said. “The sun’s rays abound in space.”
The solar cells would capture the sun’s energy, which is at least five times stronger in space than on Earth, and beam it down to the ground through clusters of lasers or microwaves. These would be collected by huge parabolic antennae, likely to be located in restricted areas at sea or on dam reservoirs, Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (Jaxa) said.
The researchers are trying for a 1-gigawatt system, equivalent to a medium-sized atomic power plant. It would produce electricity at 8 yen (about 9 cents) per kilowatt-hour – six times cheaper than its current cost in Japan.
Jaxa said the technology would be safe but conceded it might have to dispel fears of laser beams from above roasting birds or slicing up aircraft in mid-air. The government-selected consortium, called the Institute for Unmanned Space Experiment Free Flyer, includes Mitsubishi Electric, NEC, Fujitsu and Sharp.
November 9th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
You will be disrupting the magnetic field around the earth that will lead to catastrophy.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Lasers do not effect magnetic fields, microwaves might. In any case, it’s too bad they didn’t mention that this idea had been published in a book by Jerry Pournelle decades ago, using microwaves.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
tome, thats the dumbest thing i’ve ever heard. that system is a speck of dust compared to the scope of space. thank you, come again. it great forward thinking.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
It might wake up Godzilla, Rodan and Mothra.
“Godzirrrrah!!”
November 9th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
Actually, that would be a great way to feed the needy. Imagine all of the microwaved birds that would fall from the sky already cooked and feathers burned off. Hitting two *ahem* birds with one stone.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
Sooooo, what if the laser or microwave stops tracking correctly and vaporizes a few cities???? Now that might be something that stops north korea from building more nukes.
Geostationary orbits mean no power for some portion of the day. This is all pie in the sky… forgive the pun. Build the aforementioned nuclear power plant and save the wasted study money.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Remember the futuristic power plant in Sim City? It beamed power down from space, the only drawback was that it would vaporize large parts of your city every now and then if it somehow missed the collector array.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
Am I the only one who remembers seeing this thing in action already??? Try the James Bond movie “Die Another Day,” where a device just like this one was used to shoot down missiles and hold the world for ransom?
November 9th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Has anyone considered what happens when a beam of energy like that enters the atmosphere? It is attentuated by the molecules of gas, particularly water vapor. The gas molecules are heated and they are rendered opaque to a multitude of wavelengths. It’s called “blooming”. That’s why high-powered lasers don’t work when fired at space targets and why a similar beam fired from orbit wouldn’t reach the surface. It will warm up a local part of the atmosphere, but it won’t reach the surface.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
Why not build more nukes. Both lasers and nukes have risks.
Mothra’s scales could melt off, he’d be easy pickings for Godzilla.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
Reckon we could aim it at the Corn Belt and make popcorn for the midwest?
November 9th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
“You will be disrupting the magnetic field around the earth that will lead to catastrophy.”
You have disrupted the intelligence field of everybody who read your comment.
Your statement is like saying the beam from a flashlight can disrupt the earth’s gravity.
I don’t understand why people feel compelled to have opinions on things they know absolutely nothing about.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
Has anyone considered what happens when a beam of energy like that enters the atmosphere? It is attentuated by the molecules of gas, particularly water vapor. The gas molecules are heated up and after a few fractions of a second to several seconds, depending upon the intensity of the beam, they are rendered opaque to a multitude of wavelengths. It’s called “blooming”. That’s why high-powered lasers don’t work when fired at space targets and why a similar beam fired from orbit wouldn’t reach the surface. It will warm up a local part of the atmosphere, but it won’t reach the surface.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
I have heard about this for a while. Forget the atmospherics (particulates and such), an academically complex adaptive optics problem especially given the nominal vibration of the spacebourne beamformer, and all of the other reasons why it is practically impractical. I have a serious question. Isn’t highly concentrated irradiance likely to ionize ozone and most other molecules in the beam path, either laser or uwave?
November 9th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
what other wonderful purposes might this yeld for mankind?
November 9th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
“an academically complex adaptive optics problem especially given the nominal vibration of the spacebourne beamformer, and all of the other reasons why it is practically impractical.”
Besides embarassingly trying to sound smart, you are wrong. The concept of electricity was impractical. Then, humans harnessing electricity was impractical. Then, creating a massive system of power lines to transfer electricity all across the country was impractical. Everything is impractical until science and technology reach a point where it is not “impractical.” This concept os power-from-space is totally feasible, given time, research, and technology.
Also, to answer all your concerns, I believe the article is about the Japanese forming a think-tank to figure out solutions to all of your stated problems. Isn’t that the point of a think-tank? If we didn’t need to discover these solutions then we would already have solar power beamed from space, don’t you think?
Imagine if Benjamin Franklin or Nikolas Tesla spoke in big words to sound fancy (like you) instead of actually solving all the problems of practicality.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
What happens when the control system fails – ON. Just how many places get inundated with radiation? However, better them than us.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
Talk about Global Warming! Microwaving or lazing the atmosphere on a continuous basis will definitely heat the air to an extreme.
November 9th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
Actually an item in geo orbit only goes into eclipse for a brief time (72 minutes max) during the day and only during a short time of the year (+/-20 days) at the autumnal and vernal equinox (aka, first day of fall and first day of spring, respectively). The remaining 280 days it has full sun all day. The eclipse duration starts out very short, maxes out (72 minutes) on the equinox, then gets shorter again.
Since they are planning on beaming it to a parabolic antennae they can beam several “low” energy beams which will be collected on earth. That should take care of the alleged “blooming” and hopefully the cut-in-two airplanes as well. Not sure how the birds will fare however. Probably about the same as flying into the propeller of a wind powered generator.
LOL magnetic field. That was a good one. Not as good as space porn bean farmer, or whatever Inquisitive was talking about, but still funny.
November 9th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
Dave, you may have been told ‘you can do anything you put your mind to!’, but the reality is that there are fundamental limits in the physical sciences. For instance, gravity still makes things fall, no matter how much we think about making antigravity technology. Maybe transmitting the power down a cable for a space elevator would work, but you can’t ‘get around’ the physics of gassious dispersion of EM radiation. Some is scattered and absorbed at any wavelength, in fact the lowest absorption occurs near visible wavelength.
Also remember, Tesla wanted to use the whole atmosphere as a capacitor for energy transfer, but the idea was ruled out as impractical…
November 9th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
Nikola Tesla
November 9th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
Didn’t Doc Brown create 1.21 gigawatts with something smaller than a solar collector from space? He was able to build the flux capacitor, attach it to a Delorian and send Marty McFly back in time.
November 9th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
Why not collect the power in space and have one long power cord connected to a routing station on the ground. O.k. it’s as ridiculous as a space elevator.
November 9th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
Actually either PG&E or Southern California Edison has already contracted with a start-up in California to do this by… er… 2020 I believe. Although many people consider this contract a ploy to get out of their CO2 emissions regulations that CA recently passed. “We tried but failed, please don’t fine us” type of deal. Either way look for the US to fail at this at lest 10 years before Japan. Technology leaders again!
From my understanding it’s not impossible to beam back some power from an array. Most reports I have read just say the cost will be “sky high”
for this type of energy system, at least in the near-mid term. You have to get too much infrastructure into space at extraordinary cost, ATM. And that cost will be the limiting factor for decades.
November 9th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
“Has anyone considered what happens when a beam of energy like that enters the atmosphere? It is attentuated by the molecules of gas, particularly water vapor. The gas molecules are heated and they are rendered opaque to a multitude of wavelengths. It’s called “blooming”. That’s why high-powered lasers don’t work when fired at space targets and why a similar beam fired from orbit wouldn’t reach the surface. It will warm up a local part of the atmosphere, but it won’t reach the surface.”
Hogwash. We’ve been monitoring the moon’s distance with lasers for years.
November 9th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
I love all the Outcome-Based-Education graduate scientists here — come clean, one of you was Al Gore’s science advisor, weren’t you?
Dr. Gerry O’Neill pushed this idea 30 years ago (see http://www.ssi.org) and Dr. Jerry Pournelle and Robert Heinlein both gravitated to the logic of it. Pournelle’s book “A Step Further Out” has plenty of practical discussion on the matter.
Assuming they choose the proper wavelengths, there shouldn’t be any significant warming or atmospheric disruption. Specific frequencies will cause molecules to vibrate, creating kinetic energy, or make an electron change energy states and then emit an IR photon later.
If you’re really that worried about beaming power down from microwaves, compensate for the power by shutting down the TV sats — that action alone would probably raise the average IQ in the Western World by a good 10-15 points anyway.
November 9th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
Dave, you’re the idiot on this post. You haven’t said one redeeming comment that actually ADDS to the conversation, rather, you seem to enjoy telling everyone else how un-smart they are. If you decry a theory please counter with something reasonable. Otherwise, you’re simply revealing to all that you have a small vocabulary complex.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
I love how these web site that are supposed to induce conversation and thought turn into personal attacks. Why do some people seek out blogs just to attack others who have comments??
November 9th, 2009 at 8:40 pm
The adaptive optical system is not really that difficult to build. We did it in the Air Force in the late ’80s. Whoever it it was here that said you can’t propagate laser enery through the atmosphere is just wrong. (I was an R&D laser engineer working on ground-based high energy lasers when these problems were solved.)
November 9th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
“Why do some people seek out blogs just to attack others who have comments??”
Probably because so many people seek out blogs just to make sweeping comments about things they know nothing about?
November 9th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
Agreed…I always try to follow what my grandfather told me…”better to be thought of as the idiot then to open your mouth and remove all doubt!!”
November 9th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
I admire the Japanese, they are so innovative but impractacle.
Think about shredded solar collectors, victims of “space junque”.
For now they should concentrate on tidal generators.
Japanese guys are cute, I’d like to try one.
November 9th, 2009 at 11:00 pm
This would obviously be to expensive and take like time before benefits and we should instead (INSERT CP HERE) and that will like solve extinction.
^Warrants FTW
November 9th, 2009 at 11:17 pm
If you ask me, this sounds like it would be pretty cool to look into. Even though the expense of it for now will make it impratical until better technology is invented. But Japan is renown for being fifteen years plus a head of the US in technology. This large gap in technology is only because Japan lacks resources and manpower to do what they need to do all the time. Like how I read somewhere on msnbc.com before about Japan wanting to create android like robots eventually to take care of the aging baby boomers.
November 9th, 2009 at 11:41 pm
It’s a great idea – apparently well funded. If the concept fails (I think the risk of space debris and life-cycle of space equipment is unreasonable risk and cost) there will no doubt be some very good science/research that comes from the project. For the same or less money, I’d probably go with “micro nuke” plants… Try and develop a safe, small, low-output nuclear plant; replicate it a few times and leverage the other solar/wind inputs available. Oil should be used for burning police cars in riots, not for energy.
November 9th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
Help me….I’m melting!!!!!!
November 10th, 2009 at 12:26 am
The basic research on this solar power concept was done a third of a century ago. There are NO engineering show-stoppers. Building the earth to space delivery system needed to put an SPS in orbit is the hard part, but the know-how has been around for a long time. The political will has not. The job is expensive, but the power generated would easily pay for the project. Aside: birds flying through the beam wouldn’t notice anymore than you notice all the cell phone calls passing through your body.
See various papers by Peter E Glaser:
> Solar Power via Satellite, Astronatics & Aeronatics, Aug 1973
> Solar Power from Satellites, Physics Today Feb 1977
> Congressional Hearings on Solar Power 31 Oct 1973
November 10th, 2009 at 12:35 am
and what happens when the beam ‘wanders’ from the intended target?
November 10th, 2009 at 12:50 am
If you sent about 100 separate beams down to converge at a collection point, that could be very safe. No one beam would be powerful enough to be dangerous, but when brought together, the group would generate lots of heat for power at the collection point.
November 10th, 2009 at 3:55 am
me no like bright lights. fire good light bad
November 10th, 2009 at 6:28 am
Sounds like Tesla’s energy beam experiment
November 10th, 2009 at 7:35 am
Sometimes we think too far outside of the box. Most of the answer is right in front of our noses but no one is willing to accept the fact that downsizing is a must.
I live quite comfortable on 512 watts of solar myself.
November 10th, 2009 at 7:46 am
If anyone heard the policy debate resolution a year ago… well this was my affirmative case. It is more popular a plan than many of you might think.
November 10th, 2009 at 8:31 am
I’m just gonna run and extension cord over from Al Gore’s house. He won’t notice.
“It might wake up Godzilla, Rodan and Mothra.”
LoL. Wait, you don’t think it really could do ya :-0
November 10th, 2009 at 9:12 am
To all the people that worry about being vaporized by a wandering beam. Ever hear of an OFF switch on the satellite?
November 10th, 2009 at 10:02 am
The collection array would emit a signal to the transmitting array based on the reception of the beam. Once the beam is off target it automatically will turn off the transmitter. The default would be OFF so the satellite array would have to remain on target to stay ON and transmit power. This signal would have to be encrypted to help protect against terrorism attempts. Simple poke yoke invented by Demming and embraced by the Japanese.
November 10th, 2009 at 11:01 am
Terrific idea. I have trepidations about the unknown consequences, especially the potential use as a weapon. I fear there are groups that would put the technology to use in a negative way.
November 10th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
It’s called change everyone should get used to it and not be like chicken little. I’m surprised everyone hasn’t dug a 100ft hole in fear of the moon falling one day.
November 10th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
To Japan I say more power to them. I would not want to live anywhere near the receiving station.
I am pretty skeptical of the transfer efficiency achievable. Maybe a really long superconducting or high voltage extension cord would work.
Of course, that would create a more critical no-fly zone.
November 10th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
They might want to find a solution to all the space junk out there before they construct an “array of photovoltaic dishes, reaching across several square miles”. There may be a monkey wrench floating around out there…
November 10th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
They state that solar energy is 5 times (500%) stronger above the atmosphere, whereas I think it is more like 1000 watts to 1300 watts per meter squared above the atmosphere and about 800 watts per meter squared at groun level, for a factor of about 1.25, not 5. On it’s face, a factor of 5 concentration of energy above the atmosphere sounds wrong. Maybe then meant they would concentrate the energy by a factor of 5 prior to converting it into power? That is not what they said, however.
Also, they state that with this new space based system they could provide power in Japan at $0.09/KWH, which is 6 times cheaper than current power costs in Japan? So electricity in Japan currently costs $0.54/KWH, or roughly 5 times more than we are currently paying here in the good old USA? This seem highly unlikely since I understand that a lot of power is generated by low cost coal imported from Australia and Canada.
Also, just in terms of scale, one wonders how this could be practical in terms of the the large amount of equipment that would need to be lifted into high earth orbit. Compare this to the expense and time frame associated with building the International Space Staion, an installation much smaller than this proposed project.
This has the feel of a hoax, and, in fact, one that can’t even get it’s facts reasonalbe. It if is real, then someone has been drinking cool aid.
November 10th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
Wow, so many experts. Maybe some of you need to need to get an education. The same people that complain about coal fired power generation now complain about this. What do you want everyone to stop using technology. Are you going to stop using your cell phone, computers, and mp3 players. Something has to be done to generate clean power for the masses and this seems like the only one that will not produce waste or pollution.
November 10th, 2009 at 8:35 pm
Gordon,
It was not uneducated people who gave us MTBE and gasohol. Barack Obama has an Ivy League education and he is dismantling the foundations which made America great. I certainly do not mean to devalue education, but I would point out that smart, well-educated people can be lacking in wisdom.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
Use the beams to desalinate seawater. Use the beams to power spacecraft. Use the beams to make silicon wafers on the moon. Use the beams to melt ice on the moon for H2 rocket propulsion and O2 breathing. Use the beams to vaporize space junk.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:52 am
Why bring power to us, lets go to the power… set up a space colony then you don’t have to solve the problem of frying birds and planes.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
Well, there is an organization that is working on a space colony. They are having problems with air leakage from the station. The organization is EarthColony1. Google it.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
William Hunt Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
what other wonderful purposes might this yeld for mankind?
How about using those solar ray beams to strike the surface of the ocean to increase it’s warmth and increase rainfall to areas that need it?
Conversely, an increase in ocean temps could trigger bigger hurricanes, so if the Atlantic surface between Afric and the Eastern seaboard was bombarded and warmed up, then the Hurricanes hitting the US would be stronger and more devastating.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
People:
While there are some scholarly remarks here, I can not believe how panicked people are, unnecessarily.
Beaming focused light down to solar receivers does not require lasers capable of vaporizing cities (which no one has, BTW)
What people miss is that in geosynchronous orbit, power would be beamed 24/7 and 365…with some slight falloff during heavy cloud cover periods.
It is sustained and consistent energy that could be relied upon and is truly the greenest solution I have seen, short of nuclear power.
Kudos to the writer who recognized Jerry Pournelle as the Sci Fi writer who speculated about this decades ago.
Suggested reading: Non-fiction:
“Colonies in Space” by Gerard K. Oneil
He testified before the Senate about the feasability of putting man permanently in space…
this was right about the time Skylab was in orbit.
His books was a step by step process to permanent manned colonies in space and on the moon…and discussed beamed power in some detail…but is very approachable for anyone even without a science background.
Interestingly, he felt the Shuttle, which was not yet built, was a boondoggle and recommended large booster capacity such as Apollo was the way to go to put pure tonnage in orbit…
A model that worked well for the Russians with their Energia Rockets.
Here we are 30 years later with the Ares model,coming all the way back to where Oneil stated we should have stayed to begin with…
November 12th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
Somewhere in California a cult religion or new age ‘profit’ will persuade a band of sad, rootless followers that the beam of this device is really a secret portal to paradise. Send in your ‘love offering’ today.
November 12th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
For crying out loud, don’t you people realize that the vast arco-flax inducer could possibly be accidentally aligned with vertical plast-mandibular modulator resulting in a vibrational frequency being emitted continously which would, most probably, resemble endless flatulation?
THINK ABOUT IT!
November 12th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
Harnessing solar energy and beaming it down using RF or laser most likely won’t work…but what about sending it down a “space elevator” made up of conducting carbon nanotubes? (Essentially a really long and thing power line)
November 13th, 2009 at 9:16 am
A nuclear power plant would safely produce more power cheaper for a longer period of time, and be completed long before this project.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:00 am
This about competitive advantage. Note how Japan is a big proponent of reducing world usage of fossil fuels via Koyto Treaty because they don’t have any. If this works, who will we be buying energy from? Japan. These people are not stupid. We are if we agree to reducing our usage of resources we have available while we develop these new technologies.
November 13th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
I believe this system is working well a few parallel universes over….
November 13th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
If you ran the laser beam through a quadromaloptic synthesizer to boost its power, then filtered the signal with a dihydro- rebrofratzer, you could almost double the power output with virtually no attenuation. OK, so this is gibberish, but it sounds good when I’m shooting the breeze with my buddies over a beer (for some reason, it never works with the ladies). So lonely…
November 14th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
First hybrid automotive drive, now another energy technology the US will fall behind because our Congress is so heavily in bed with the fossil fool lobby.
Well, I’m glad someone is working on it at least. Even if America is terminally mired in the 1950s, humankind in general will still benefit.
November 15th, 2009 at 12:10 am
Lets quit the worry about japan and worry about the bomb obama is throwing at the american people
November 15th, 2009 at 9:40 am
Nuclear. Designs are available NOW for plants that are safe. Spent fuel can be put on a rocket and shot towards that big yellow ball in the sky. Even with an American developed Government Motors guidance system we could probably hit it. If there were a disaster like the shuttle explosion, the cargo could be safely parachuted back to earth. CHEAPER to shoot the waste towards the sun than maintain an extensive, expensive mechanical array in geosync orbit. Nuclear: CHEAPER, FASTER, CLEANER.
November 15th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
I’m not sure why people are worried about the impact this technology will have on planes and birds… If Japan does in the longest of shots actually develop this technology to a fully working and productive state, then all mankind will benefit. I believe that the great minds working on this “solution” will take these factors into account. And if they do rend planes in two then it’s probably their own planes anyway! LoL
On the off change that they succeed then we’ll probably just steal it anyways, knowing us!
November 16th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
What if the beam misses and hits a populated area or a large urban center? Any scientific word about Japanese-sponsored technological control factors involved in the energy outout of the space-origin beam itself? Safety first! right?
November 16th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
For the other Jack,
Um, well and good attempt at a reasonable explanation, Jack, but what if JJ’s prediction comes true, and end up just sounding a bit too optimistic?
November 16th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
First the Japs flood the landfills with their cheap transitor radios, then TV’s, then cars, then cell phones now they want to junk up outer space we dont need anymore space junk we have everything we need here on earth to supply our demand for energy.
GEOTHERMAL its cheap, clean and easily accessible.
NUCLEAR its cheap (1/10th the cost per gigawatt compared to coal, clean and the engineering over the past few decades has made it one of the safest forms of energy available today.
Save research money and put it into cold fusion technology this HG Wells approach to solving our long term energy needs will destroy us faster than our use of fossil fuels.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
Bottom line – US Military won’t allow it since they don’t have it and sooner or later Space will be carved up into zones of influence. Too many countries with too many toys in space makes for nasty behaviour.
November 19th, 2009 at 7:45 am
Discover channel also aired an episode as part of their Going Green series called Orbiting Solar Power Plant. They tested a prototype on earth to see if power could be transported over that distance (equal distance from outerspace to a collector on earth). To my suprise they were able to transfer power via microwaves across that precise distance. Look it up, Discovery Channel – Solar Power Plant. And btw, they ran a helicopter thru the microwave beam to test the power levels being transferred at regular intervals. Not sure what long term would do, but the helicopter & people were alright
November 19th, 2009 at 8:02 am
Nicola Tessla had similar plans. He worked on a high frequency coil system to transmit electricity without wires.
He was considered a nut . . We are just now starting to realize he was a genius.
November 19th, 2009 at 8:41 am
Get out your lead underwear!
November 19th, 2009 at 9:16 am
This is a great idea, everytime the thing needs to be worked on, a shuttle could be sent to space that uses more power than the solar arrays could collect. UMMMM. Back to square 1.
November 19th, 2009 at 10:13 am
this may need to be looked at as a source additional energy that currently does not reach the earth’s surface. We all now that mass in equals mass out. If it is not balanced you have either accumulation or depletion of stored mass.
Simple same holds true for energy. Currently this source of energy does not reach the surface of the earth. It is reflected by the outer atmosphere. So we bring it in in the form of microwaves or some other method. We use it to run our refrigerators and electrical devices. So it dissipates as heat energy into our homes and our planet. So you really believe in global warming? You ain’t seen nothing until 2030.
November 19th, 2009 at 11:53 am
These idiots know that even though the cells collect 5 times the energy from the sun in space, they lose 80% of the energy in the conversion and transmission (through the atmosphere) processes. DUH. Sounds like a great green investor scam… Al Gore must be involved.
When will the idiots stop the nonsense and start making hyrodgen from seawater using solar energy?
That is OUR future and the rest of this is just CAP and TRADE BS.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Dilithium crystals and tachyon beams… problem solved.
… or energon cubes
November 19th, 2009 at 11:15 pm
Help, I peed my pants!
November 19th, 2009 at 11:49 pm
They could always just charge batteries in space and send them down the space elevator. Rechargeable batteries of course. But then how would we power the space elevator? We could use Prisoners on treadmills to run generators to power the space elevator. Actually how about paying folks minimum wage to walk on the treadmills in say 15 minute shifts. This will be government subsidized, right?
November 20th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
“The researchers are trying for a 1-gigawatt system, equivalent to a medium-sized atomic power plant.” Why not just build a medium-sized atomic power plant?
November 21st, 2009 at 10:26 am
what happened to nuclear power, or how about fusion power plants? i think france is building a fusion plant.
November 21st, 2009 at 12:10 pm
The energy required for the transmission system alone will create a need to scale the system to at least 2X+.
In other words, for you green-headed idiots, the system will be horribly and completely uneconomic.
As others have written: Just build the nukes and get it over with. Take a fraction of the savings and send the waste into the sun.
November 21st, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Buckrodgers…..Deming did not invent Poka Yoke. Check your source. Re-post when you find out the actual person that did.
November 21st, 2009 at 2:21 pm
While I am by no means a greenick, it is exciting to see technologies like this being considered and funded. Even if they fail, much will be learned by the attempt.
November 21st, 2009 at 6:52 pm
Ignorance is bliss, so all of you must be solid blisters.
November 21st, 2009 at 11:47 pm
I have never actually read one these things before. This is facinating. Is this what passes for discourse? Has no one here any sense of shame? I seem to recall a day when folks considered thier words and thier abilities before they spoke.
Almost without exception I have not heard one thing that seems to have any rigorous thought behind it. ABL is the only case I know of where one might ragard the complexity of applied adaptive optics having been solved. ABL has never flown and the system barely tenable at best and probably impractical. A statement that complex adaptive optics problems have been solved is, in my opinion, still an academic excercise. In fact there are such serious flaws in ABL that it may in fact be one of the largest exercises in academics ever funded.
The facile reference to folks like Franklin and Tesla are probably only useful if you understand what they did and can possibly add, substract, and maintain a modecum of abstract thought.
I would strongly suggest that you want to know what happens to the atmosphere and particularily wrt ionization. Assume you have 100 separate beams, summed to produce 1GW, ~10Mw each. No matter how you spread that energy over an areal collector the energy density will be many orders of magnitude larger than that seen from any radiation at the same wavelength that might have ever illuminated our planet. I have not, and will not, waste my time calulating energy densities and and power absortion for such fancy, but I suppose that those who want to believe should have and that it should be readily available.
The SST was yet another in a series of advances of mankind, however the unfortunate drawback was enhanced degradation of the ozone layer due to ionization.
Wanting something to be so, does not make it so. In the end the consequences of a decision will be.
And just for the record, I would rather come off as trying to sound painfully intelligent rather than flatulently vaccuous, i.e. for those eduacationally impaired Americans, fundmentally ignorant of that about which you profess understanding. You will note that I was asking a question. I can only assume that if you had had an answer that you would have provided it for the ediifcation of all, but that since you didn’t, you felt small and threatened and decided to pretend that you had enlarged genitalia.
November 22nd, 2009 at 10:45 am
This kind of power station is virtually impossible to build. They would have to build a space shuttle type of vehicle capable of delivering heavy loads to geosynchronous orbit, which is about 23,000 miles above the earth. The present USA space shuttle has never flown more than a few hundred miles above earth. Considering that each space shuttle launch requires hundreds of millions of dollars and months of preparation, the cost of hundreds (or more) shuttle launches necessary to build something so big would be daunting. How many years before the thing is finished? How many billions of dollars? Probably hundreds of billions, and that’s only if the technology can be devoloped.
The laser-based power delivery system is a large unknown and would have to be tested. Maintainence of the station would be difficult and expensive. There is no way the cost of this station would be only US 9 cents/khw.
On a sunny day around noon, you can get around 1000w/square meter. In space around earth orbit it’s around 1366w/square meter.
I think a better investment would be solar panels on every roof. It would be much cheaper, it would decentralize the grid, and maintainence would be relatively easy.
November 22nd, 2009 at 2:46 pm
[...] better, into some kind of energy storage facility ready to be used at ground level, following the recent Japanese example). A more contentious proposal? Pollute the atmosphere even further! The world’s largest [...]
November 22nd, 2009 at 3:43 pm
It wont work, the distortion in the atmosphere will mean the beam would shift hundreds of meters, its not going to work.
November 22nd, 2009 at 7:54 pm
[...] better, into some kind of energy storage facility ready to be used at ground level, following the recent Japanese example). A more contentious proposal? Pollute the atmosphere even further! The world’s largest [...]
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:11 am
I’m really quite impressed by the guy who claims to live on 512 watts a day of solar power. How many panels do you employ?
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Some say it will work, some say it won’t work. Who is a layman like myself suppose to believe? You all sound so very smart to me…well, except for that one guy, that is.
It seems to me an idea worth pursuing and from the names of the companies in the consortium, some very successful companies, there must be some top engineers involved.
While I wouldn’t invest too much money in the idea of beaming power from space, (the sun does it for free)I’m not too worried about a stray laser beam burning me up. Still, it’s another good reason to hang on to my aluminum foil hat for a while longer!
November 23rd, 2009 at 4:22 pm
i need to hear what al gore thinks then think the opposite